Jim’s first book, What Every Superintendent and Principal Needs to Know is a national best seller. In addition Jim has written: Teachers Change Lives 24/7, The Perfect School, Finding Middle Ground in K-12 Education, The Art of School Boarding, and The Principal’s Toolbook. He also has written two focus books: The Rights and Responsibilities of School Principals and How to Create the Best Staff Possible.
Jim’s presentations and books are both practical and useful. His goal is to leave his audience with the desire of making a positive difference and with the tools to get it done.
Jim talks about the responses to his first book from educators all over America, and how they led him to write and co-author several other books (2:07)
The right way to view your role as an educator (4:30)
The one thing that former teachers did that encouraged so many of today’s educators to choose this career (8:40)
How one bad encounter can make a student remember a teacher forever as The Wicked Witch of the East (9:35)
How Jim made sure he was always focused and positive when dealing with students, and how he helped his teachers to become the “baggage handlers” that so many students need, and the importance of helping other staff members deal with the issues in their own lives (10:45)
Very practical advice for teachers and administrators thinking of writing a book someday (22:24)
The best leadership advice Jim has ever received (35:05)
Jim highly recommends these books for leaders in education, and aspiring leaders (36:04)
Jim’s advice to administrators for working with the students you serve – no two students are exactly alike (39:08)
Jim’s advice to administrators for working with the teachers you serve (41:01)
Here’s the advice Jim would give his younger self if he had a time machine and could back to when he was just starting out as an educator (42:33)
Books mentioned in this episode
The Greatest Salesman in the World
Lincoln on Leadership: Executive Strategies for Tough Times
Jesus, CEO: Using Ancient Wisdom for Visionary Leadership
Connect with Jim Burgett
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Educators Lead Ep. 36
Never Ask Someone to Do Something You’re Not Willing to Do Yourself
Show notes: http://www.educatorslead.com/jimburgett1/
Welcome to Educators Lead, where we interview leaders in education to offer inspiration and practical advice to help launch educators into the next level of leadership. I’m your host Jay Willis and I want to thank you for subscribing to our show.
Intro: Hello Edu Leaders. Jay Willis here, and I’m excited to jump back in to part 2 of my interview with Jim Burgett. As a quick recap Jim Burgett is a presenter and author who’s nationally recognized for his ability to lead, motivate, inspire and teach. Jim has received dozens of awards for his teaching and for his abilities as an administrator and for his service to many professional organizations. He was named the Administrator of the Year in Illinois twice and has been a popular national speaker, presenter, and consultant for over 20 years. Jim’s first book What Every Superintendent and Principal Needs to Know is a national bestseller. In addition Jim has written Teachers Change Lives 24/7, The Perfect School, Finding Middle Ground in K-12 Education, The Art of School Boarding, and The Principal’s Tool Book. He also has written two focus books –The Rights and Responsibilities of School Principals and How to Create the Best Staff Possible. Well so tell me, because you kind of went from a point of not really you know being an author, maybe not even considering it, too considering it and then writing that first book…so what was it that happened in that experience with writing the first book that caused you to continue wanting to write more books?
Jim Burgett: Jay, it was probably the response to it, where people would say you know…the first book we divided up and so I was responsible for certain chapters. Chapters that I felt very passionate about. And Max was responsible for some; Jim was responsible for some. And so there was a collaborative approach and we all proofed and tweaked and added to and subtracted from each other’s work, but we had ownership into various chapters.
And I would have principals contact me, email me, call me and say, “You know this part about eliminating the weakest link, building a staff of excellence, the things that you’ve outlined, how to do that? It’s been very helpful. Could you elaborate, could you talk to me?” and I ended up being on the phone or emailing people (still do, all the time) when they read the books and what I didn’t have was a plethora of people that said what, what a waste of time, what a pile of malarkey. And if I did, that probably would’ve made me rethink it. But I think there is such a need for people in our profession to help other people with the idea of, you have to have a passion.
When I speak to groups – I just did a second semester in-service for a very large district, and I was talking to the teachers and I said, “You know, you need to understand two things about me – one, I don’t look upon your job or my job, we’re educators, I don’t look upon it as a career, I don’t look upon it as a vocation, I don’t look upon it as a job. I look upon it as a calling. And we are unique and different than anybody else because we deal with human capital. We deal with children and what we say or don’t say can affect them positively or negatively for the rest of their life. You have to realize that is a great responsibility and if you do it well it’s a great gift.
“And the second thing you have to know about me is I have very little tolerance for people in our profession who don’t do the job right. And if you worked for me you knew I was a fair guy, a fun guy, a happy go lucky guy, a guy with a vision, but I set specific expectations and if you didn’t need those specific expectations I would much rather you work for GEICO than you work for the school district and would help you to find that opportunity. And I’ve never varied from that – if you were struggling I would do everything I could to help you be a better teacher. But if you didn’t want to be a better teacher or in some cases you couldn’t cause it wasn’t in your DNA, then I would work with you really hard to really find something that you’re going to find satisfaction and happiness in.
And I’ve always maintained those two things – you have to be passionate about it and you really have to be true to the profession. And I think they have done me well when I write because it’s kind of the underlying philosophy in all my books. And this new one for school board members…I mean to me – you’re in education you understand, you’re in testing and you work probably a lot with boards and administrators when they’re looking at testing products – we’ve got a lot of board members that have absolutely no reason for being on the board. They don’t care about kids; it has to do maybe with a football coach, or salaries, or something that irked them, and they have no business being on the board of education. And if you can’t convert them to being really good, passionate board members for the right reason then you need to somehow get the entire community to understand what you need, what a school board member should be. So that was my thrust in writing this book and it’s a very frank book but boy is it well accepted. And my goal is that superintendents and principals and teachers need to be encouraged, they need to have opportunities for training, they need to have opportunities for success by people who really truly are on the same wavelength as they are – caring for kids, working for kids. That’s why this The Art of School Boarding became such a passionate thing of mine. And still is.
Jay Willis: I love the underlying focus on philosophy kind of as the foundation instead of just… because there’s all kinds of books that there’s practical tips, like “here’s 10 tips to do this effectively”…And what I love is obviously because you’re molding young lives and it’s just what you said so eloquently what you say or don’t say could direct the trajectory they have for the rest of their lives and you can impact them for the rest of their life and so like just really getting into the philosophy more than anything is what I like most about…it kind of sounds like the underlying theme in all the books that you’ve written.
Jim Burgett: You know I do a thing when I meet with teachers I love to be with teachers and I go around the audience, whether there’s like 50 teachers in that room or 5000 in the room, and I walk around with a microphone and I say who feels really compelled to share with me why they got an education? And after the initial hesitation you get hands all over the place and when they say, “Well I had a teacher” and I’ll say to them, “What about that teacher? What was it that teacher did or said that made you want to become a teacher?” And in many cases, Jay, it’s a specific conversation that a teacher had with them that changed their life. It was the thing that said to them, you know, “I want to do this.” And then we have a section where I talk about the wicked witch of the east; it’s in my book for teachers and it’s about the substitute teacher I had for two weeks who was the worst teacher on the face of the earth. She was a licensed witch; she was horrible.
And then I might say if I have the time, “How many of you could relate to something like that?” and hands will go up and I walk around and I’ll say share with it, and again in many cases it comes down to one specific occurrence or incidence that this teacher had with their teacher that just turned them off and the point is made that every single thing we say and do has got to be on the right path. It’s got to be on the right – and we’re human, we’re going to make mistakes – but if your heart is in the right area and you make a mistake it isn’t tattooed on somebody’s brain. It’s one that you could say Oh gosh I was not feeling good or I was upset or mad I don’t why I said that I’m sorry and they will forget it.
Jay Willis: So I have two questions right along this vein, one, you know in the role that you have been in the past, principal or superintendent, how do you get yourself to that place? Because you have your own life, right? And then obviously this kind of a school leader there are lots of things as a principal a lot of which could kind of get you down or you could need a hand, kind of take some time to process…could be just difficult things that you know about people’s home life or maybe even in your own personal life that maybe could have the tendency sometime to cause you to get down or maybe not to stay focused on what you should be focused on which is the students. So the first question I would have would be like what kind of things did you do to get yourself into being fully present and most effective for the child so that you were directing or influencing them in the right way and not allowing your baggage to enter that classroom? And the second thing is – how did you help your teachers to do that same thing as well?
Jim Burgett: Well we use a keyword that I use a lot and that’s baggage and I told teachers all the time that it’s an unwritten part of the contract – they don’t see it on their contract but it’s in their contract – they are official licensed baggage handlers. They handle the baggage of every one of their students. That’s part of their job and they also have baggage in their own life and when they come in the doors of the school if they are more concerned with their own baggage then it’s really hard to handle the baggage of the kids.
So you have to spend a great deal of time talking to your teachers about what is the most important thing in their lives. And the most important thing in their lives is their life. In every one of my books I have a chapter called “Taking Care of Yourself.” My publisher said, “Oh you’re not gonna put that in there again are you?” and I said, “Yes.” School board members have to hear it as well as teachers, as well as administrators because if you don’t take care of yourself you can’t take care of others. And so if you’re focused on a bad marriage, a mother in law, or a mother that’s sick and needs your help or whatever. And you can’t manage your time correctly or your emotions or your focus or your passion and you take it away from the kids or you take it away from your teachers if you’re a principal, and you let things slide. We’re not in a business where you can let things slide. So what I was trying to do – I think I did pretty well, I think my teachers would tell you I did it well – is I made their lives paramount to my own leadership style.
They knew that if they were having situations they could come to me and say, “Jim I need a couple days off I’ve got a situation at home. And I don’t have any more personal leave days.” And I would say, “Yes, you do. I just discovered that you have two of them that you haven’t used yet.” And I’d find a way to break every rule I could possibly have if a teacher really truthfully honestly needed time or needed guidance or needed somebody to talk to or whatever. Because I knew that if that teacher was not giving a hundred percent that everything was going to pay the price.
And so I focused on them and they were highly respectful of that and highly involved in that and knew that we when we talked about this school as a family… when I talked about the school being a family or the district being a family of educators they knew I meant it and not just the word. I mean we were family we cared about each other and you have to set that atmosphere up and I think about you know if I can be a little arrogant maybe or conceited here I think I did that better than most because to me it was so fundamental to a good school district. And you asked the question, “How do you how do you deal with those things?” You do it openly and honestly and transparently.
I could tell you story after story probably a dozen stories where I went to a teacher and said to them, “You’re not functioning well in the classroom and it’s not because you’re not a good teacher so what’s happening?” And you know the doors are closed but they would never ask me, “Do I need a union rep?” because they always knew that what I was trying to do was for their benefit. And we would have that conversation and before long you know you might get something like, “I’ve been struggling with something” and they tell you and you can then move forward. But if I was like, “Hey, you’ve been late 16 times – you’re late one more time we’re going to dock you.” Well that doesn’t do anything to solve the problem. So, I hope I’ve answered your question but I think it’s transparency and caring and doing for them what you would want them to do for you.
Jay Willis: So, the follow up to that is how did you do that for yourself because I mean you know it can be lonely as a leader because you’re kind of…you necessarily have to kind of not always be their best friend but you always still kind of want to be there for them as well and like have them come to you…but when you had issues going on whether it be a death in the family, just something difficult in your home life or just the weight of some situation that was going on at the school or with one of the families in the school…like what did you do to help yourself cope with that and then still bring it for the teachers and the students?
Jim Burgett: And when I had issues – and I’m pretty lucky in the sense that I’ve had a pretty decent family. I didn’t have problems with my kids, I didn’t have problems with my marriage, and I have been pretty lucky in those regards. Although I’m also very faithful and I think faith helps a lot. But when there were situations, because I was able to give to others, in those times they were very giving to me. Boards would be extremely understanding, my administrative staff would rally around me like I rallied around them, and it was…you build that family atmosphere. And when it comes time for a family member to have needs other family members are there for you. So like I will be there for them and then they’ll be there for me and we build up that type of synergy and I guess I’m just pretty much of a real lucky guy in the sense that I didn’t have many of those situations.
Jay Willis: So when you had situations like that would you maybe share those with the teachers or would you kind of just share it with the board and maybe the superintendent when you were a principal?
Jim Burgett: When I retired a teacher came up to me and she had been retired for a few years, and she was in the reception line and said, “I’ve always wanted to tell you that the most meaningful time, the most meaningful experience I had in all of my years teaching was when we opened up school and it was the year that your mother had passed away during the summer. And you told about your mother passing away and having lung cancer and the experience of going down there, and it took you about 5 minutes to share that.” And I was relatively new to the district; it was the second year I was there, and she said, “I knew from that moment that you were the superintendent that would always be my favorite.”
So there were things I shared, there were things that I would ask for at times, and I was never one to hold back. And sometimes I wasn’t politically correct; sometimes I would say, “You know, we’re going to just stop for a couple minutes here and think about Bob and his family. Pray if you want, think about him, do whatever you want, you know, I’m going to be praying. And we’d take a couple of minutes, and I never had anybody complain, and that was like…some of that stuff was kind of crazy.
So it was that teamwork, it was that letting people know that you were a human being just like they were and the best way to solve problems is for everybody to take ownership to the degree in which you wanted them. I had some people that came to me and said, “I have cancer and I’m not going to live two more years and I don’t want anybody to know it.” They would come to me the superintendent and tell me that because, one, they knew nobody would know it and two, I would know if they were sick or missing days or whatever. We had that relationship. So I guess it was so important to me to if you want the kids to feel like they’re cared for the key to it is having caring educators and the key to that is having educators that cared for each other. And you set up the whole climate – the whole school becomes not “what can’t we do?” or not “how strapped are we because the stupid state of Illinois isn’t gonna give us any money and they’re gonna cut more money?” It’s not about that; it’s about, “What can we do with what we have and how are we gonna make this environment better even though we have less money?” It was always that attitude.
Jay Willis: Yeah it’s great.
Jim Burgett: And I’ll say one thing to you, Jay. I’m a human being; I make mistakes. I’m not perfect. And my family says the one thing that they always tell me is, “Dad, you’re just way too optimistic.”
Jay Willis: They don’t make statues for critics, right?
Jim Burgett: Yeah I always tell them; look I’ll have here’s what I want you to write in my tombstone: “He was a great guy but he was too optimistic.” Cause I want people to go, “What was wrong with that? “
Jay Willis: Yeah that’s great, so I wanted go back and kind of revisit, because it was just so much wisdom in this, a lot of conversation. I’m loving it. So just kind of going back then and just talking about writing a book – where were you at in life when you wrote that first book – like did you, were you working as a principal at that time or you were a superintendent at that time? What were you doing?
Jim Burgett: I was superintendent, let’s see I was retired…my first book came out in 2007 so I retired in 2004. I wrote all the books since I retired.
Jay Willis: Okay so, that’s what I was kind of wondering too, but I guess – what advice would you have for someone out there who might be considering writing a book? Something you wish you would’ve known?
Jim Burgett: Keep notes. Keep notes – I had files and files and files I mean literally, files and files of things. I would go to teacher workshops that I was giving and I would say to the teachers, “Will you do me a favor? If you like this workshop will you email me or leave it before I go…if you had to leave one idea in your will for educators or education, what would it be? What’s your best thing that you could give to people?”
And I had stacks and stacks and stacks…and that was the basis of Teachers Change Lives 24/7 and I honestly think that this book will be good for ever because it’s all about loving kids and loving what you do and how to do it. So my advice would be if you have something you think you can share, don’t wait. Keep information. Jot down notes, stick them in a file. They don’t have to be organized in any way. When you go to write that book you can spend 6 months sorting your files and that will reinvigorate you at the time. Or come up with topics if you’re going to do a book…like when I did the book for the Principal’s Tool Book, I had files that had specific things like setting priorities, setting priorities as an administrator, setting priorities in your life, setting priorities in the day to day deal…so I wrote a whole chapter on just setting priorities and different types of priorities.
The chapter on rights and responsibilities is the first chapter – what are your responsibilities as a school principal but what are your rights as a school principal because you have a number of rights. And then oddly enough I had a chapter called the school family and you know the philosophy of crafting and building that family atmosphere. And I have a chapter called Zoom Learning. I’ve done a lot of articles and a lot of programs on Zoom teaching. I define zoom – we could do a whole hour on Zoom – I define Zoom as teaching the way that kids learn. And a whole shift in the teaching philosophy as our children have shifted in the way that they learn because they don’t learn like you and I learned. They don’t even learn like kids who graduated from college 3 years ago learned. They learned completely different – everything’s different with these kids because technology is totally different and so you have to that teach that way.
And I have a chapter on that. I have programs on that; I have presentations called zoom technology and zoom learning. It’s a big passion of mine so my answer to your question is keep information and realize that when you go to write a book it won’t just flow; you will have forgotten stuff, so you need to keep records of the things that you thought were so important. I wake up in the middle of the night – I got a pad paper and pencil underneath the bed – and I just jot things down. Sometimes when I actually wake up in the morning I don’t know what it is I jotted down because I can’t read it and I have to think about it you know and it’s something that just came to me or made sense and I write it out a little clearer and throw it in the file.
Jay Willis: Yeah that’s great – it’s been kind of one of the themes in this conversation because you basically have been doing that since 6th grade right?
Jim Burgett: Absolutely.
Jay Willis: When you documented like here’s the things that I like about this teacher, here’s the ways that I think that this one could improve, and so you just continued that and then you had lots of material to write books or obviously to help you become a better administrator or teacher but then also now that your kind of writing books lots and lots of material that you can use to write books.
Jim Burgett: Right I had file – not file drawers, but file cabinets
Jay Willis: Wow.
Jim Burgett: and I do read a lot so I rip out a page or something and I give credit where credit is due and you know I never pretend like I make up everything. I steal most of my stuff, but that’s what education is about – stealing and recycling and reformatting so that’s what we do. We do well.
Jay Willis: Yeah you know I kind of heard that’s how John Maxwell does it – if you’re familiar with his writings, The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership and a lot of those books, but he’s constantly just taking notes and he uses now that technology makes it that you don’t just have to have a piece of paper all the time of course I think he has that too…but he uses Evernote quite a bit and he has like this complicated filing system for keeping all of his electronic notes organized. But then when it comes time for him to write the next book he’s got all this information like any time he had an idea or heard a great quote or any of that…he kind of has it tagged for like this is kind of the type of material that this is about, this is what this type of you know this quote, that’s what it has to do with and he’s got it all labeled so when he goes to write the book he’s kind of got most of his information ready to go.
Jim Burgett: I think I have every one of his books.
Jay Willis: oh okay.
Jim Burgett: And I would say it in terms of leadership authors he is by far my favorite.
Jay Willis: Yeah.
Jim Burgett: In terms of overall authors he’s second to me. I’m my favorite. (Laughter)
Jay Willis: Well of course. (Laughter)
Jim Burgett: But no; he’s really my favorite.
Jay Willis: So I wanted to hit on a couple of things that I generally ask the guests if you’re still okay on time.
Jim Burgett: Yeah sure.
Jay Willis: So the first one I guess is you kind of talked about this a little bit but what were some of the biggest struggles that you encountered along the journey to becoming a school administrator?
Jim Burgett: I didn’t have – to be a school administrator I was thinking teacher – I didn’t have any struggles becoming a teacher it just kind of fell in my lap. And far as becoming an administrator I fell into it; I didn’t even apply. I never interviewed until this last job when I decided I wanted to move at the time that my two daughters were out of high school and my youngest was going in 7nd grade.
And one of the reasons why I really wanted to move was location – I love where I was, I love the rural community, but I was pretty far from travelling opportunities and airports and things like that and I had to drive 2 and a half hours to get into the airport. And so the first job I literally applied for was my last job and by the time I applied for it I had worked for the Illinois School board association helping them train boards on how to hire superintendents so when I went to apply for myself I knew all the questions that they asked and the procedures that they used. (Laughter) Which is a little unfair, I suppose!
And I wasn’t really, I had a great job – if I didn’t get the job it was like okay if I get it fine then it was meant to be and if I didn’t get it fine, I have a great job. So when I applied with a little bit of swagger in the sense that you’re going to interview me but I’m going to interview you and apparently that did me well. There were 60 applicants and I got the only job I ever applied for and so I can’t say I struggled really anywhere along the way.
If I struggled it was the fact that I got to administration and it really hadn’t set my mind ready for it. It’s kind of like you’re really doing well in the pit crew, you love changing tires on the race car, and then somebody says, “Hey why don’t you drive it?” And you go, “Oh, I don’t know if I want to drive it” and that’s kind of how I got into the principalship but I learned to love it. People had faith in me and I learned to have faith in me too.
Jay Willis: And once you got behind the wheel you realized how much you love it right?
Jim Burgett: Once I drove several laps.
Jay Willis: maybe not at first.
Jim Burgett: Yeah I mean I had to learn and I told everybody, “My first year of being an administrator is kind of gonna be a year of learning not a year of changing…I’m just not smart enough to change anything yet.” Although believe me, I knew what I wanted to change but they wouldn’t have accepted it. They had to have faith in me and trust me and know that anything I suggested to them was going to be a valuable. A and you don’t have that when you’re just right out of the chute, especially if you’ve come new to a building. They don’t know jack about you and you’ve got to build it. I met with a superintendent yesterday doing some work with a district and the guy told me, “When I came to this district I told the board I want a full year of assessing the district, and learning the people, and knowing the kids.” Oh, my gosh, I wanted to kiss this guy. And he told them “I will not suggest any changes until I’ve got a year under my belt.” And he wasn’t a novice – it wasn’t his first superintendency. And he’s in his second year and that district is just blossoming under his leadership.
So I can’t give you any hard luck stories, but I can tell you that I had to get my mind wrapped around it and I had a lot of support. My family has been great about giving me leeway and understanding late nights, different things like that. I’m kind of blessed that way.
Jay Willis: Yeah, so I’m going to roll through some rapid fire questions if you’re ready for those?
Jim Burgett: Sure.
Jay Willis: So first off, what’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?
Jim Burgett: The best leadership advice was “be visible.” Without a doubt – be visible.
Jay Willis: Okay, I know you mention that three but I guess maybe you’d probably say that’s the most significant?
Jim Burgett: I think a leader who is visible and positive and likable…I mean you could be visible and you could be a jerk and if you’re visible they’re not going to like you anymore, they’re going to like you less. They don’t want to see you! But if you’re positive and supportive and learning and they like you, you need to be visible. And by the way, you can’t react with kids and learn kids and love kids if you don’t see them.
Jay Willis: What would you say is your biggest strength as a school administrator? What was your biggest strength?
Jim Burgett: Caring. Caring for people truly caring for people and kids.
Jay Willis: So aside from the fantastic books by the author Jim Burgett (laughter), what one or two books would you recommend the others school leaders that have been influential for you?
Jim Burgett: Oh gosh, I’m looking at hundreds of books… one of the books that is very informative to me was written by Og Mandino. Have you ever heard of him?
Jay Willis: Oh yeah. I’ve read The Greatest Salesman in the World, and probably every book that he’s written.
Jim Burgett: That’s the book The Greatest Salesman in the World by Og Mandino. What is a school teacher or principal or superintendent if they aren’t the greatest salesman of the world? So that would be my number one book I think. And I used to give that book to every graduating senior – not from the school but from me. When I was in that district when we had 50 graduates not 200. I couldn’t afford 200 but I could afford 50.
And probably two other books. One is called Lincoln on Leadership. I don’t know if you’ve read that one? It’s a book based on all the things that Lincoln said that how you can transpose those into leadership axioms, I suppose. And the other one is called Jesus: CEO and it’s the same thing. It’s a book on everyday common leadership based on the principles, the parables, and the teachings of the teacher Jesus so I would say those three books are extremely influential for me.
Jay Willis: Yeah, I used to…one summer I read what was it The Scrolls I think it was up by Og Mandino. I read one each day: “I’ll greet this day with love in my heart.” And all those different positive scrolls.
Jim Burgett: You know, when I gave away that book, sometimes I had a couple teachers ask me, “Why would you give graduation seniors that book?” And my answer to them was, “Have you read it?” And none of them eve had and I said, “Read it, and after you read it then come and you tell me why I gave it to them.” And I never had anybody who said that was not the most appropriate book to give. It’s just a great, great book. In fact, I’m gonna read it again now that we’ve had this conversation!
Jay Willis: Actually you made me think where did I put that book? (Laughter) So what advice would you have for a school administrator for working with the students that they serve?
Jim Burgett: Understand that every student comes from a unique family situation and has unique parameters. Understand that there aren’t two that are alike. And the kid that is a C or B student that never gives you any problems, that never demonstrates superior capabilities, they’re just dependable kids, they hardly talk, you never worry about them – those are kids that you may be allowing to fall through the cracks because you’re not giving them any attention. Nobody does – they’re the unseen, unthought of, un-needy kids who may be more needy than anybody. So don’t spend all your time with the screamers and the shouters and the happy go lucky kids, the A’s and the F’s; realize that every single kid in your class has specific needs. In one of my workshops I do the student checklist where I’d train teachers to talk to kids outside of educational talk, and when they do, to check it off in the grade book: “I had a conversation with her, I had a conversation with him.” And then at the end of the week see who you’ve converse with and who you haven’t so that you don’t let anybody fall through the cracks. So that would be my advice.
Jay Willis: So kind of along those lines what one piece of advice would you have for a school administrator working with the other teachers?
Jim Burgett: It would be very similar. As a teacher deals with kids…it’s exactly the same job. When I would talk to teachers I would say, “You are leaders, you’re educational leaders, you’re leading kids. When I talked to principals I’d say, “You’re educational leaders who are dealing with teachers.” The class is just different; the process is exactly the same – every one of those teachers is like the teachers dealing with every one of those kids. In other words, it all boils down to this – we deal with people and every person has needs, and the good teacher, administrator, educator meets the needs of the subject, the subject being a kid, a teacher, a janitor, a bus driver… they all have needs. That’s what makes you excel.
Jay Willis: So last question that I have – if you had a time machine and you could go back to the point in time when you first made the decision to into teaching and you could give yourself some advice what kind of advice would you give to younger version of yourself?
Jim Burgett: (Laughter) Wow, that’s a tough question. I think if I could do one thing differently I would’ve gone to the teachers that I respected and knew and loved the most and I would’ve gone to them and I would’ve sat down with them and asked them the same question you just asked me. “What was it that is the most meaningful thing in your experience as a teacher, what can you share with me that will make my journey better, easier, more intuitive, more loving, more compassionate?” And I think I would’ve sought more advice from people rather than really trying just to distill it myself and analyze them myself. I never really asked them and I think I would’ve learned a whole lot. I didn’t do a lot of asking after I was in the profession; but before it, I think, “You know, Mr. Ruggles, you’re the best teacher I ever had – what do you think of teaching and what do you think is the reason why you appear to be such a good teacher?” I think I would’ve done more of that. There is great benefit in that. But never ask the average teacher or the lousy teacher what makes them lousy because all you’re going to get is perverted attitudes.
Jay Willis: Excuses right?
Jim Burgett: Excuses, you’ve got to always stay positive, you’ve got to look at the positive side. I’ve heard enough teachers say, “Well, what do you expect when they don’t respect us, they don’t give us any money, they don’t do this, they cut this program, I have 30 kids now and I used to have 25 kids, what do you expect?” And my answer to that is, “I expect you to love 30 kids as much as you love 25. I expect you to work a little harder until things get better, and find a good in it.” And a lot of times I say, “Here’s what I expect – I expect that you’re not complaining as much as the teacher that was cut who doesn’t have a job. So you’re part of the solution, not part of the problem so be grateful you have a job.” I almost always leave my teacher presentations by saying, “When you go home tonight, if you love being a teacher and you love being an administrator or an educator, when you go home tonight be thankful, be grateful that you’re employed and you still have an opportunity to make a difference. And never forget that you have that to be grateful for.” It does change perspectives – I’ve had lots of people telling me you’ve got to focus on that, you can’t focus on the bad, the bad doesn’t seem to run out.
Jay Willis: Yeah.
Jim Burgett: So anyway that’s the answer to that question. I would seek more advice if I had to go back and do it again.
Jay Willis: Yeah, so much wisdom that’s already in place if we’re just willing to reach out and ask the right questions of those people who have a lot more experience than us.
Jim Burgett: Absolutely; there’s a lot of wisdom out there. And a lot of people are willing to share it and sometimes you have to massage the questions, massage the answers until you get them thinking the way you are and get them really thinking about what it is that motivates them.
Jay Willis: Yeah, well Jim I sure appreciate you sharing your wisdom with our listeners today and finally I would ask if one of our listeners wanted to reach out to you after the show what’s the best way to connect with you?
Jim Burgett: Probably email and if they just remember my name Burgett, they can just google it and come up with my website or my email address or whatever. If they know it’s Jim Burgett – I have two brothers who are also authors. I would be more than happy if they email me or give me a call, I’d be more than happy to talk to anybody.
Jay Willis: Okay, great! Well Edu-leaders this has been a great interview today. For the show notes of today’s show and other resources kindly visit educatorslead.com. Type the word Jim into the search tool to find more information about this episode. Jim, thank you for sharing with us your journey with us today.
Jim Burgett: Well what a pleasure it is to meet you and what a great forum you have for educators. I think this is just a wonderful opportunity to share and to learn so thanks for what you’re doing.
Jay Willis: Thank you Jim I appreciate it. And that wraps up another episode of Educators Lead.
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About EducatorsLead:
Educators Lead is a podcast created to help launch educators into the next level of leadership. This show is for you if you are interested in educational leadership as an assistant principal, principal, superintendent, teacher or someone who hopes to be a school leader one day. Educators Lead offers inspiration and practical advice to help you lead more effectively. Jay Willis interviews school leaders three days a week to discuss why and when these educators made the decision to move into school leadership, challenges along the journey, and stories that made it all worthwhile. Educators Lead is a great resource for any educator looking to make a greater impact.
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